Exclusive Interview With Bob Moon (2015)

Bob Moon, music engineer and mixer for Tooth & Nail Records and Moonsong Studios, was kind enough to set aside the time for an exclusive interview for this blog, All Done Wrong. He talked about his time working with Jason Martin of Starflyer 59 and how they recorded the band's first demo (hint: it involves a baby monitor), how he got involved with Tooth & Nail, what he's up to now, and much more. Check it out below!

Part of the reason I wanted to talk with you is the fact that you recorded Jason Martin’s demo tape that he would later give to Brandon Ebel, head of Tooth & Nail Records. This would, of course, lead to the release of Silver, and begin Starflyer 59’s 20+ year career. Not many people are aware that you were involved in the making of this demo. Was all of this your entry into Tooth & Nail?

It definitely was. At the time I was assisting Gene Eugene quite a bit. I met Brandon at Mixing Lab A while working on a Deliverance record. Brandon was at Frontline still. Without the Silver demos I would have probably still done some T&N stuff but it probably would have been under Gene. Another thing, especially in the beginning, was I was extremely cheap because I was still trying to get my foot in the door. Budgets were very tight in the beginning.

And how long were you with Tooth & Nail?

I never worked for T&N in that I was never "on staff." Silver was in '93 and it, for the most, part ended in '96. I did a couple more Joy Electric things after that but that was it.

Is that when you moved on to form your own recording studio, Moonsong Studios?

No, I opened Moonsong in '93. A lot happened really fast. It was pretty overwhelming.

Very exciting times. Do you look back on your time with T&N fondly?

For the most part... It was an honor to be apart of it. The way things ended with Jason and I bummed me out... I kinda felt a part of SF59 but the whole process of the Gold album killed that. That's the way I remember it anyway. And the way my relationship with T&N ended bummed me out as well.

Gold, Starflyer 59's 1995 sophomore
record

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about Gold. If it's not too sensitive of a topic, could you tell me a little bit about those times?

I'm an open book, you can ask me anything. Gold was brutal! We had a pretty focused idea of what we were going for but that got lost in the crazy pace of work on that album. It was around the clock everyday. I don't remember taking any breaks at all. It was taxing mentally, physically and emotionally. It, I think, did our working relationship in...

Yeah, there's kind of a whole mythology surrounding that record. I've read that there was a bit of a backlash from fans, but Gold has since come to be considered a classic of shoegaze. Are you happy with how the record turned out?

Yes and no. What we were going for is on the 2" tape. We were just completely fried come mix time. If there was only one album I could remix it would be Gold for sure. I do love that album but I know the mix could be better. You can hear it a little bit in the songs Gene mixed but even those I think Gene didn't want to stray too far from the path we were on for continuity sake.

Going back to the Silver demos you recorded with Jason, how did you come to be involved in that? Did you know him beforehand?

If I remember right we met at church. My wife and I had just moved around the corner from Ronnie and Jason. I was pretty fresh out of engineering school and had one ADAT and a Tascam board set up in my house.

Do you remember much about the process of recording the demo? How did it go?

That demo was a blast. I think Jason and I worked together really well. We were stoked the way that little 8-track demo was coming out. Thinking back I don't see how I pulled off recording in the house. My first daughter was just an infant. It was a five bedroom house. One room was the control room and then there was an empty bedroom that was the tracking room which was right next to my daughter's room. I had a baby monitor in front of the drum kit and miked the speaker in the bathroom. We used that in "The Zenith" and it was awesome! That's what I remember most about that demo. We did the baby monitor thing for the Silver album too but it just didn't translate in that session.

Oh, that's awesome! You mention "The Zenith," but that track isn't featured on the demo that was uploaded online a few years back. Where are the missing songs?

Did Jason release the demo?

I don't think anyone knows. It was put up on MediaFire in 2012, but it only has 5 songs.

Yeah I'm a bit blurry on that. I'm pretty sure we demoed the whole Silver album. I'm thinking Jason didn't want all the songs to be on the demo. I'm not 100% sure. I have all the songs we did mixed down on an ADAT tape. It's in storage along with my ADAT machines. My goal is to start transferring all that stuff by the end of this year.

Silver, Starflyer 59's 1994 debut record

I'm sure the fans would love to hear that (myself included!). You went on to work with Jason on Starflyer 59’s first 2 LPS, as well as the surrounding EPs and singles. How was it to work with him?

We worked good together. I loved working on all of it. I think Gold was just the perfect storm... I'm sure Gene mixing the last few songs on Gold was a breath of fresh air for Jason. I don't blame Jason at all. If I was in a band and had the choice of me or Gene, I would pick Gene every time. Gene was a genius!

Do you have any favorite stories from your time working with Starflyer that have stuck with you over the years?

Man, we had a lot of good times. Jason was a character. I always loved his stories about his Uncle Frank who was in prison. Pretty sure it was all made up but I was never completely sure. Haha!

Ha! That's great. Now, before I wrap this up, would you mind answering a few more questions about your career specifically?

Sure.

In the liner notes to the Starflyer albums, you’re listed as the engineer and mixer. Could you tell me a bit about what these jobs entail?

Technically the same thing. To be be more specific it would be tracking engineer and mixing engineer. Engineer and mixer is just saying I was the tracking engineer and mixing engineer.

Gotcha. And was that your main job on all of your musical projects?

Yes, I was listed as a producer on some albums but I've never really considered myself a producer. I've always said I'm an engineer who will throw my two cents in every once in a while.

Who were some of your favorite bands to work with, and what were the best albums you did together?

Motor Cycle by Daniel Amos (1993)

There has never been been a band I didn't like to work with. All of SF59 and Joy E. MxPx Teenage Politics was a blast. That was the reason I didn't mix the last few Gold songs. Focused, Bloodshed, Unashamed, 90 Pound Wuss, the Daniel Amos Motor Cycle album was an honor to work on. The Stavesacre demos. OC Supertones... I said if I could remix one album it would be Gold. If I could completely do an album over it would be a toss up of The Adventures of the Supertones and Life in General. Last but not least the Havalina album is still one of my favorites! I'm sure I'm forgetting something...

You've got quite a career behind you! Who would be your dream band to work with?

That's easy. Foo Fighters. Dave Grohl is my hero! Or a new Crucified album! :)

Good choices, ha! You mentioned working on the Joy Electric albums. Was that challenging to do completely electronic albums, when you're used to working with rock bands?

I've always loved all types of music. My in to recording in the very very beginning was rap. SFC, the Dynamic Twins and Freedom of Soul. Ronnie is a mad genius! He mixed the music and I just recorded the vocals and mixed that.

Very cool. Are you still in touch with Ronnie and Jason, and the others from Tooth & Nail?

Not really... I run into Jason every few years at wahoos... Haha! I keep up with what Ronnie is doing through Facebook. Big Rob! Rob Walker from Wish for Eden. We work for the same company and he is producing the album that I am engineering right now.

Speaking of which, what are you up to nowadays?

I'm an estimator for an electrical contractor. The owner of that company happens to be my best friend and has a killer home studio. I'm recording his album right now. The whole band is made up of great friends of mine. That's pretty much the only recording I do these days. His band and my daughter.

Awesome. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk. I just want to let you know that I love and appreciate the work you did with Jason.

Thank you so much! Truly humbled when people say they appreciate the work I've been involved with.

You can find his daughter Charlie Moon's debut record (which he worked on) at Bandcamp, Amazon, and iTunes.

He also wants you to check out the podcasts Urban Achiever and Never Was, hosted by Tooth & Nail alumni Billy Power and Mark Salomon, respectively.


Interview by Jonathan Spinasanto. Conducted on January 28th, 2015.

What Can We Expect From a New Starflyer 59 Album?

[UPDATE, January 23rd: Spirit Flyer from the sf59fans forums emailed Jason Martin this blog post. Jason replied: "Hey man, might be some new tunes this year...not sure yet."]

It is now January 2015, which means it's been 2 years since the release of Starflyer 59's 13th full-length record, IAMACEO. Going by the band's track record, this means we're due for an album soon - most likely (and hopefully) - sometime this year.

In the event that 2015 does not see the release of a new Starflyer record, this would mark the first time in the band's two-decade career that 3 full years have passed between albums (the time between The Changing of the Guard and IAMACEO was only 2-and-a-half years). This could be a stronger possibility now that Jason Martin is without a label. While I have no idea what kind of contract he was under with Tooth & Nail, it seems possible that the absence of such a contract would result in a longer period between albums.

The final result of IAMACEO's Kickstarter
campaign

Now, how would he fund this new album? He took to Kickstarter for IAMACEO, but will he choose to do so again? Fans would obviously be willing to donate once more, as evidenced by the large excess of money IAMACEO took in. But the question is - how long can Jason keep this up? Without a label, will he be forced to create Kickstarter projects for every new record? Or will he strip down his sound to release music on a budget? Or, as he has previously hinted at ("...every time I finish making a record there is so much time involved I will think this will be my last..."), could this be the end of Starflyer 59?

I highly, highly doubt that. Even when he mentioned that he had originally expected The Changing of the Guard to be the final Starflyer album, he went on to release IAMACEO independently. He's also said multiple times that his plan has always been to release 20 albums - meaning he's got 7 more to go.

In one of the Q&A sessions mentioned above, he considered releasing his then-new batch of songs - which would go on to become IAMACEO - as a solo record. Perhaps he's still open to the idea, and we'll receive a Jason Martin solo album in the future. Maybe this would cut down on costs and allow him to release music consistently without the need of constant funding.

Jason Martin in his studio

But what can we expect a new album to sound like?

Well, assuming he sticks with the Starflyer 59 name and produces another record in that style, we can make a few educated guesses.

All fans know that Mr. Martin loves changing up his sound with each record. It's been going on since 1995's Gold, when the band went into much darker territories than their debut. The biggest change-ups in sound would have to be the poppy Fashion Focus, the indie rock of Old, and the classic "rock 'n' roll" featured in I am the Portuguese Blues. All three of these albums, while still sounding like Starflyer, sounded almost nothing like the albums that came before them.

Now, Starflyer's sound has been pretty consistent since 2005's Talking Voice vs. Singing Voice. Of course, the records are all quite different from one another, but by Martin-standards, they're fairly consistent: they could all fall under the "indie rock" banner, none of them are very experimental, and most songs clock in at 3-minutes, and the albums themselves at 30-minutes. To compound these similarities, Starflyer's last two records - 2010's The Changing of the Guard and 2013's IAMACEO - are very alike, perhaps more so than any other albums in their discography.

So we can take this streak of albums as a map of what's ahead, or a sign that a change is coming.

IAMACEO

Jason could certainly continue his trend of releasing short, catchy, introspective indie rock albums without fans growing tired; he switches things up enough to keep his sound exciting. There is also the chance that he'll release another album like his last two, thus creating a kind of "trilogy."

Or he could surprise us and revamp his sound, as he seemed to do with every single one of the band's first 8 or so albums. Could he pull another I am the Portuguese Blues and release an album that sticks out like a sore thumb in the band's discography? I definitely wouldn't write that option off entirely (this is Starflyer), but it seems that with each release Jason is putting his days of experimentation farther and farther behind him.

I think these "safer" albums are due to both Jason's new musical taste and the lack of an outside producer. He's been producing every record himself since I am the Portuguese Blues, and it certainly shows: the tightness, the cleanliness, etc. With him being without a label, I imagine he will continue to produce any future albums.

So here's my opinion: I expect there to be a new Starflyer 59 record. I expect Jason Martin to produce it. I expect there to be a change in sound, but not a drastic one; maybe it will branch off from the last two records, but stay within the bounds the last 5 albums or so have set. I do think we can kiss the days of layered guitars and experimental song structures goodbye. But that's not a bad thing. I feel we are entering a new chapter in Starflyer's career: one that is simpler, sparser - more intimate, thoughtful, and reflective.

In any case, I am very excited and hopeful for future Starflyer releases.  I anxiously await news of a new record. I will happily donate money if another Kickstarter is made, and look forward to hearing a new album.

But what do you readers expect? What will the next record sound like? Will there be a next record?

Jason Martin in White Lighter's "Omens" Video

Today, January 6th, 2015, Northern Records released on their YouTube page a live in-studio performance of "Omens" by White Lighter, filmed by FindersPictures. Jason Martin is on guitar; you can catch a glimpse or two of him sitting with his Fender Jaguar in the video below.

"Omens" is the 7th track from White Lighter's eponymous 2014 debut record. Check it out on Bandcamp here.